019: Take Captive Every Thought: Using Faith-Based Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to Conquer Your Mental Battles with Kimberly Christian

 
 

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Show Notes

In this episode, I’m joined by Kimberly Christian, a licensed clinical social worker and faith-based counselor. Kimberly introduces us to her program, The Christian Method, which combines cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) with biblical principles to help people understand and transform their thoughts and feelings using CBT techniques.

Kimberly delves into the crucial difference between thoughts and feelings, emphasizing that thoughts are complex narratives, while feelings are simple, single words. She shares insights into thought retraining—how changing negative or distorted thinking patterns can significantly impact mental health and behavior. The conversation also touches on the importance of managing intense feelings before making big decisions and how understanding our thought patterns can lead to better decision-making and emotional well-being.

Through practical examples and personal experiences, Kimberly highlights how aligning our thoughts with scripture, like Romans 12:2, can lead to clarity and spiritual growth. This episode is packed with valuable advice for anyone looking to integrate faith and psychology to improve their mental and spiritual health.

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About Kimberly:

Kimberly Christian is a licensed clinical social worker and faith based clinical counselor. She is committed to helping Christians practically adopt a biblical worldview through the principles of cognitive behavioral therapy.

Her work focuses on the relationship between thoughts and feelings, aligning them with God's word to alleviate symptoms of depression, anxiety, and other mood disorders. Believing in the transformative power of integrating mental health and faith, Kimberly is passionate about empowering those struggling with mental health issues to manage their symptoms confidently, knowing their Christian faith complements therapeutic practices. Kimberly also has a YouTube channel, a Facebook group, and a signature program called the Christian Method.

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Transcript

Lauren

 Have you ever found yourself where your thoughts have gotten you into trouble or maybe you're ruminating over something that's not true or something that you think might've happened? Maybe you make assumptions about somebody because of the way they've responded to your text message. Well, if your thoughts have gotten you in trouble, or maybe your feelings have led you astray, then this is the episode for you. Today's conversation is with Kimberly Christian, as she talks about the difference between thoughts and feelings, why we often mix them up as well as what we can do to retrain our thoughts so that they're in alignment with what God wants for us and what's truth, what's right. And this way we can make our best decisions, live our best life and not be pulled down by things like depression or anxiety or whatever else, mental battle we are going through. We want to uncover the root of these issues and learn how to take captive every thought.

I did want to throw it out there and give a little heads up that the audio in this episode was a little off. There are some times when you can't fully understand what Kimberly had said, and I still wanted to air this episode because she gave so much value. But if you do want to follow along in the transcript, It would be maybe a little easier since I was able to fill in the words that were missing and a lot of the places. I think most podcast players provide a transcript, but if not, you can find my written transcript at anchoreddecisions.com/19. And that's where you can find the show notes as well. So just bear with us through this, and I hope you still get a ton of value out of this episode. Even with the audio being a little off.

 Intro: Welcome to the Anchored Decision Show. I'm your host, Lauren Black, the world's biggest overthinker turned decision coach, all by the grace of God. Now I'm on a mission to help you make easier decisions, discover God's will, and live with purpose. Tune in weekly to hear real life decision stories, expert insights, and faith based strategies to help you navigate your decisions with confidence. So ditch your pros and cons list and learn to make better decisions without asking your mom or losing another night of sleep. Let's go.

Lauren

All right. Well, welcome back. I can't wait to introduce my guest for this week — Kimberly Christian. She's a licensed clinical social worker and faith based clinical counselor. She is committed to helping Christians practically adopt a biblical worldview through the principles of cognitive behavioral therapy or CBT. Her work focuses on the relationship between thoughts and feelings, aligning them with God's word to alleviate symptoms of depression, anxiety, and other mood disorders. Believing in the transformative power of integrating mental health and faith, Kimberly is passionate about empowering those struggling with mental health issues to manage their symptoms confidently, knowing their Christian faith compliments therapeutic practices. Kimberly also has a YouTube channel, a Facebook group, and a signature program called the Christian method, which we will dive more into soon.

So welcome, Kimberly, tell me a little more about you and your family.

Kimberly

Thank you, Lauren. I'm so happy to be here. So personally, I have been married for over 19 years. Together we have a total of four children. My oldest is 24. She's my step-daughter. And then we have a 16 year old son, a 12 year old daughter, and an 8 year old. We live in Texas, and I’m in private practice here. And, we belong to a wonderful church here in Fresco that we love. We love to serve together.

Lauren

Yeah. So, well, thank you for joining me today. And I did want to talk with Kimberly today about her program, the Christian Method. So tell us a little bit more about what the program is, who it's for and what type of transformation usually comes out of it.

Kimberly

Oh my gosh, probably one of my most favorite things to talk about these days.

So the Christian Method in many ways has been in the works for about 15 years. God has just been kind of speaking to me just in little bits and pieces throughout my life as a social worker. And it's only in the last year, to year and a half, I really started realizing that the time was now. And I started putting it all together and all the pieces fell into place.

And it felt powerful that it’s His timing and not ours. And so the program itself, like you said, is based in cognitive behavioral therapy, which has always been my specialty. Faith-based therapy kind of came a little bit later. But CBT, I just was drawn to, the minute someone introduced me to it, I was like, “Wow, this actually worked.”

It's simple enough for people to understand, but it's profound enough to bring the transformation. And so the Christian Method is a program where participants that engage in this have 16 week access to material. It is all online, it's all audio, so it works very much like a podcast. People just taking it on the go, listening to it as much as they need to. And they will need to listen to it a lot because the concepts that are covered in this are, they're not common. They're just not common to most people. Even therapists, I would say, 'cause I'm one of those therapists that was not trained in CBT.

That was not a course that I took or it was not offered for whatever the reason was. And so I've just self-taught this whole time. And so I know I have benefited from putting this together and realizing the transformation in my own life, but it is geared towards Christians or anyone who actually want that material. They may be curious about the faith and they haven't really, you know, given their life over to the Lord, but they're thinking, "well, you know, this has been pure scripture and a lot of people that know scripture are happy and peaceful and they have hope. Well, then maybe I'll check this out." So for the Christians, they're going to already know just right out the gate that this is the number one modality of therapy from all time and always will be, I believe, paired with their faith.

Lauren

Yeah. I love that. And I am definitely a psychology nerd, as my audience knows. So I love that you combine psychology with theology in your practice. So tell me about the concept of choosing thoughts over feelings. So what's the true difference between our thoughts and feelings and how can we maintain control over those?

Kimberly

So you know what is so interesting about that? Again, I love that question too. It's that most people, they think they know. They really truly think that they know, like, why would, why would I not know what a thought is or a feeling? And I will tell you time and time again, when I have taught these types of classes in person for many, many years leading up to the Christian Method, I would ask that question on like session one or session two.

And the answers that I would get were so telling. People would almost always reverse them. It sounds like it's so elementary, but it truly isn't, or we wouldn't be having this conversation. I wouldn't be creating this program helping people to align their thoughts with something bigger and greater and more new to install it.

But simply put, thoughts are the narrative that are constantly running through our mind. They come through processing of our senses. And so some people are very surprised by this, I know I was, but the average person has between 60 to 80,000 thoughts in a day. And women tend to have more. So that's just the average.

Can you imagine someone saying to you that you need to be able to be aware of your thoughts? It's like, that's so daunting. Are you kidding me? There's no way. And they're right. There is no way you're ever going to know and to be able to capture all of those thoughts. But point is understanding that thoughts in so many ways are at the control center of every single thing that you are doing — your behaviors, your choices — they matter.

And so feelings are, they're one word. Where thoughts are a narrative and they're a sentence, and they're an observation, they're feedback. Feelings are one word. And the way that I can always tell that people did not understand that, is I would, I'm just a really good listener, I think, in general, because of my, my trade. But I would listen to people if you asked them, how do you feel about such and such? They would tell you what they think, right? They would say, oh well, you know, so this is, this is this, and I've done this before, and, and they just go on this, this rant about whatever, and now once did they say, I feel hurt I feel encouraged, I feel satisfied.

Those are feelings and I think there's a huge reason for why we don't have that right. I don't think it's taught, I know it's not taught. I had children. They definitely, when they were in the public school system, they were not taught any of these things. And I wasn't. So that's part of my mission, is helping people at a very, very basic level understand the thing that is guiding their decisions.

Because people will come into therapy for that. You know, I want to stop doing this thing. My husband, my wife doesn't like that I'm doing this. It gets me in trouble. I'm losing relationship, losing job. And little do they know that we have to trace all the way back to: but what do you think about yourself? What do you think about other people? What do you think about society? What do you think about God? Because all of those things are where we find the errors. It's a long answer to your simple question of what's a thought and feeling, but it's like you have to unpack it to understand they're very different, yet they work together positively.

Lauren

Yeah, and I think it's something we don't typically focus on, you don't think about it, and those feelings just kind of guide our thoughts a lot of times too, without us even realizing it, because everything's so subconscious.

Kimberly

Or at least that's what we're thinking, right?

We're thinking that my feelings are what matter and they've got me, but in all honesty, it's the opposite. Whatever we're thinking produces a view. And so that's another thing I really want people to understand. That kind of shapes their worldview a little bit. It's a little different than what they've been told or what the experience is.

Until, they give it a chance, and they listen to what I have to say about it. And then they try it out themselves. And by the next class, the class ends and they're all "I've always thought that my feelings were, you know, the most automatic thing. It really is. I have all of these thoughts that lead me to how I'm feeling."

And so, where, where are we going to start our work?

Lauren

Wow. Yeah. Well, obviously I need this as much as the general everyday person since I had that off. So can you dive a little into thought retraining and what that is and why it's important?

Kimberly

So thought retraining is again, very simple, but it means that you're taking a thought or you're taking maybe a thematic thought that you have and retraining them at a very, you know, ground level. Because just automatically, just as children, we really were in a developmental state where we adopt the ideas and the opinion of our parents. And it's, it's appropriate, very much an appropriate stage to a certain point in life. You can't help that. But what happens if your parents never work on this? What happens if they never have had this information themselves and they're the ones looking in the mirror saying, “Oh, I'm so ugly, I'm so fat. Look at whatever.” And they're pointing out all these negative things. And then there's this little girl standing behind her that knows — that's my mom. I came from her. It's like that fast, automatically, we start thinking that about ourselves.

Or that hurt, right? We're convinced that that's the truth. And so my answer to that one is that it starts in the very beginning. And like I said, people will come into therapy for other reasons: addictions, relationship issues, chronic pain, depression, all of the mental health stuff they came in for. But it's only through really diving into their life and their history where someone like myself really listening to that, we realized, “wow, you think that's true." You literally think and it's not,” and so we have to start that journey of retraining.

And I'll just say what probably your listeners are thinking right now: "oh my gosh, is that hard work?" It is, right? Because there's not, there's not something that I could just say that's going to convince you that you have a thought and I say something, automatically, it's just, "Oh, okay. Well, I guess she's right. I'll just go forward with that." It takes a lot of rebuilding the foundation of that, you refer to as poor beliefs, but we do start with understandings.

What are just your most common thoughts in life when you're doing something for the very first time, because it often comes out when there's something new going on. I try a new identity. I meet a new person. What are those thoughts? Because those thoughts might be, "I'm not going to be good at this. I'm probably going to mess this up. People are probably going to judge me." Versus someone who probably has done some work: "I like doing it. If I don't like what it is, I won't do it again. Or I can start over." So it's good. Obviously, directly tied to self esteem and self worth, and, that's worth the retraining.

Looking at things, how they are right now, how ugly it is, how painful it is, so that you know, and you can choose what that benchmark is going to be. I want to get to here. I have to know where I'm at.

Lauren

Yeah, well, and I think some of what the thought retraining that, I know I've had to work on is just learning to distinguish truth from a lie and what actually happened. So there was this one time I was in the car with this person and her kids were in the car next to us with someone else. And we all started to go at a stoplight and that car with her kids in it was further up than us. And this car came flying down a bridge, going super fast and almost got an accident with the car that had her kids in it and she could not stop getting the picture out of her head of the collision happening. And it didn't happen, but all week she was thrown off and disturbed by the vision and thoughts that what if that had actually happened and her kids were in this horrible collision and what would her life look like? And she couldn't stop replaying it in her head as if it had happened. And so I was trying to help her through it, like, it didn't happen. That's not what's truth. We were spared. It was all okay, but it would, it takes that retraining your thoughts to stop the lies and what's not truth from getting in her head.

Kimberly

Right. And, and I think what you're sharing is such a good example of when I was talking about understanding one of the basic thought patterns that hatches in a normal day. Helps me as a therapist to, to then show my patient the majority of your thoughts are supporting your depression. Or the majority of your thoughts are supporting anxiety like your situation and so that's very familiar to me. That scenario that you just shared is very familiar, when I help people to see they're wanting that anxiety to go away. I want that for them, but I don't take this approach, just "well let's make sure we get you on the right medication and let you know, just kind of talk our way through this" I want to listen to those kind of thoughts to say "do you see that that's supporting an anxious thinking?"

And so, like you were helping your friend to really ground, that's one of the approaches I would take too. Let's ground ourselves in what actually is true and not the what ifs, not the possibilities. Right? And, you know, a vision like that is not going to go away right away, but with practice, you are retraining your brain to not automatically deepen.

Lauren

Yeah. So why do you think these things matter to God?

Kimberly

Oh, so I cover that at great length in the program because that shocks a lot of people. I don't know where we ever got this message, believe me, I have looked in scripture to try to find a passage. But we have this idea that feelings are more important. And it's not just from you know, our faith as followers of Christ. I think it's just in general. We say things like "What the heart wants the heart wants" or "but that's what I feel I just feel like this." Almost every sin, of course, I don't know every single sin, I'm just thinking about the majority, they're going to be traced back to a feeling. They are not going to be traced back to a thought as much as the feeling. Remember, I told you the sequence was thoughts, feeling. So even if someone was saying, "well, I just, I can't help that I feel drawn to whatever this thing is," because that's a thought. It's the feeling. "I feel like I'm, you know, I feel attracted, I feel satisfied," whatever, right? And so the reason that I know now, absolutely, I had my suspicions, but now I know that it really is important for the Lord is that there's so many things pointed out in scripture that really say that your life flows from your thoughts.

You know, my, and this is one of the reasons why I was so excited to be talking with you. The concept of your show, Anchored Decisions, is something that I've talked about that with my patients and in my program, which is you've had to have anchor verses. And I've plugged them in to my program. And I told them that you have to have these anchor verses or you're not going to be going in the direction that He wants for you.

Lauren

Yeah, definitely. And I, I love the scripture of take captive every thought and make it obedient to Christ because it is true that those thoughts are the things that get us in trouble. And I know for me, anytime I'm struggling with discontentment, I have to change my mindset and say, “Nope, I'm going to think of 20 things that I'm grateful for around that topic that I'm discontent on.” And it helps completely shift my perspective.

Kimberly

Right.

Well, the Hallmark verse or the anchor verse that I refer to most often in my program and in my life is Romans 12:2. When I read that again through this lens... do not conform to the patterns of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of what? Not your heart, your mind. I just, this is so silly to say. He gets it. He totally gets it. Like that is the human struggle, right? Is that our thoughts are just not right. And we have to start at that level because there's another verse, I think it's in Proverbs, says that the heart is the deceitfully wicked, right?

And so all of our battles start in our mind. Again, if you really, really think about that and you're honest with yourself, you're going to realize anytime that you've been mad at someone, or you've felt good that you're being treated unfairly or whatever it was, you can trace that back. You can just trace that back. And so I think it's absolutely the heart of God, that it's just sprinkled in scripture. But we have to know, we have to look for it. And then it makes more sense that we need to take everything captive. It makes so much more sense of what that means and why you would even do that. What does that even look like?

To me, it's like you're having a bowl of those thoughts that are 50 to 80,000 a day. They're floating down the river in front of you. And you're grabbing the ones that you can acknowledge to say, “Hey, that's not even like me, I don't think like that,” or “why am I thinking that? That sure explains the sadness I feel in my soul today.”

Lauren

I love that you mentioned Romans 12:2, because that's one of the anchor verses for me with Anchored Decisions. And that it goes on to say, "then you will be able to discern what God's will is. His good, pleasing and perfect will." But as you said, it's only after you get your mind set right with Christ and put him first and not conform to the ways of the world. And so you have to clear those negative things out. You have to clear the lies out, anything that's not of God. And then he's given you the ability to make good decisions and to discern what's right, what's wrong, what's godly.

Kimberly

That's absolutely it. I love it because it is such a burst of discernment. And not in our own ability, but to realize if I follow this things are going to become so much more vivid. You're not going to be so confused. You're not going to be struggling. I'm going to be able to realize and not pluck things out. That's not, that's not even in the character of God. It just, uh, it just brings so much clarity, which is something people are always after.

Lauren

Yeah. So as far as decision making and these thoughts and feelings, what are some best practices for getting into a good mental state before making big decisions?

Kimberly

So that takes us back to the thoughts and feelings conversation. So there's an acronym that is used a lot in the substance abuse or addiction community, and I have borrowed it for my own use with everybody that I greet, and it's the acronym H.A.L.T.: Hungry, angry, lonely, tired. And when I teach people that, that gets us going in this conversation, when you have intense feeling, which means you feel something so strongly that it's really like a visceral reaction. Your body is really showing you that you're having a strong reaction to this. It's pretty intense. That is a time that we need to train our brain to just stop. That's why it's full. So that I can stop and I can think. Even just thinking, no matter what the thoughts really truly are, if I'm keeping distance between myself and the viewer, I'm allowing it to naturally de escalate.

And then I'm more likely to make a better decision. Because it's really only when we have these intense feelings and they can be positive or negative. I think that also shocks people. We think it's only going to be when I'm angry or when I'm frustrated or when I'm resentful or when I'm sad. It's also when you're happy, enjoyable, right?

Sometimes when you're so over the moon, happy, or adults we call that like infatuated with someone, we might be more likely to say, "oh, you know, it's only been a couple of weeks, but I just, I feel so connected to you. I think we need to get married." And it's only been a couple of weeks and there's no way on earth that you know all the things that we'd really need to know to make that kind of decision, that lifelong commitment decision.

Or we could, you know, be offered a raise, a huge raise. And we have such a huge wave of positive feeling. "Oh, this is so awesome." We might just go home and say, "guess what? If we've been talking about that trip to Disney World, guess what? We're doing it". No thought.. You know, no checking the bank account, no strategy, just impulse. And so, that's what, when I said earlier that those things are still dangerous, they really are.

Some people are more drawn to understating their thoughts better, just more easily to them. I say the majority, if you're looking at like a pie graph, the majority of people are going to stay, they're more in touch with feeling. And that's the harder conversation to have and letting them know, don't make a big decision. And especially in my field as a mental health professional, I have that conversation all the time.

Not just for the examples I'm giving you, but when someone's really, really sad, where they are really depressed, they're actually in an episode or they're having a panic attack. I will say to them, “This is not the time to decide that you're going to move out of state, you're going to leave your spouse, you're going to quit your job, that you're going to burn yourself.”

This is not the time. And I explain exactly what I'm saying to you. This is why. Because intense feelings equals the inability to make a big decision. Your thoughts just won't. They go straight distorted, straight irrational, only to regret that later. So with a lot of practice, people are able to see that they can make better decisions when they just understand that one concept: big feeling, no big decision.

I have to wait until that levels up.

Lauren

Yeah, so interesting. I have always thought about the negative side of when you are not in a good mental state of making poor decisions, but hadn't really thought about when you're in an elevated state and how that can also lead to decisions that maybe aren't wise or thought through all the way.

And I did want to add one more thing to your H in H.A.L.T.: would be hormonal. Because for me, when I'm on my monthly cycle, um, yeah, I am, that's when I want to quit my business. That's when I want to buy a new house. That's when I'm frustrated with my kids. And during those times, I realized that, “Oh, I can't be making any drastic decisions during those few days where my hormones have gone crazy because it just won't be pretty.”

Kimberly

That's right. Well, I want to add to you saying hormonal. I love that because right before you said that, I was thinking, because I have kids as well, just like I told you, and I also, I homeschool my kid, but I'm also part of a co op where I'm teaching like other children. Right. And I'm thinking, if they understood, "when I have intense feelings, I don't need to make a decision." Think about what that looks like at 5 and 15. If they truly understand this, understood that, and that became a core belief, then they would have this conditioning that goes on, where their hormones are going crazy. And as a young boy or a young girl, they're realizing that this default is "if I feel attracted, if I feel loved by this person, if I feel all of these, you know, whatever, just fill in the blank. I'm not going to act on it. I'm not going to act on it". Look at what our purity rate would look like. Just look at how it would change everything. Because when you bring it all the way back, it can be traced to that. Because people think if I feel it, it has to be right. And I have to do it. And unfortunately, both of those are wrong, almost all the time.

Lauren

Yep. And yeah, just imagine how many long term decisions have been decided on a whim because of people just acting on those impulses and on those quick feelings. So do you have any examples of a real life kind of thought retraining in your own life that you could share?

Kimberly

Besides everything? I mean, really, like, I feel so passionate about this because I've done this.

This was something that I was, like I said, I was self taught and so as I was teaching this to other people, it was healing and it was therapy to me. All of the distortions I was teaching people, I realized, I've been through every one of these. You know, I wouldn't say that to my patients because that's not the relationship that we have. They don't need to know about my life, but I think it was coming through in the passion. I understand this is not easy to have these things revealed to you and then you realize that they're the reason why I'm having all these issues, right?

But it's the way you look at it and the way I would choose to look at it is: I'm so glad to know what it is. I'm so glad that these thoughts that were causing me anxiety and stress and a lot of overwhelm in my life because I'm just so bitter. I'm always doing so much. It's very easy to get overwhelmed that. I would realize they actually have names. These thoughts, that was so revolutionary and still feeling me to realize they actually have names. I'm not going crazy. There's nothing wrong with me. This is me jumping to conclusions. And so one of the ones that I realized that I probably had a bigger issue with that I've done a lot of work on is making assumptions, jumping to conclusions, mind reading, fortune telling. They're all from the same distortion. They just have different names.

Realized that our culture creates an environment to that. Because now I hear it so clearly in so many people. They talk about whatever it is that they're, whatever their platform is, whatever they're sharing, and they say it with so much authority. Like that they just know that this is true. And I'm sitting there listening going, how do you know? What evidence do you have? My CDT brain, thank you Jesus, will never turn off. It will never turn off I've done it for so long. I know it's so well I'm always hearing the distortion in others and I realized that wasn't just me. That's not just my family of origin. Everybody is doing that. And it is, just like we talked before about the result of some really big decisions come out of the feeling impulse, so many of the issues that we have here that people are dealing with come from assumptions.

They come from making assumptions about other people, or we think they're assuming about us, and it's this, this dialogue that's happening in our mind that we don't talk about, but it just comes through the feeling, and then goes right through into the behavior. And then there's conflict. This, that'll, I work at that deal all the time, but I would say that's probably one of the biggest ones that was just like, just feels like scales were removed and fell off my eyes.

This is making me insane. I don't have anything to account for this. But I am saying it as though it's us that we acted. And I think that is, again, one of the reasons why I wanted to put forth building this, this online program that I realized is so prevalent in the church. People are not necessarily reading the scripture themselves.

They're sitting there listening to a teacher, a pastor, someone that they've looked up to, someone that they think knows more than they do. And maybe they do. But they're not looking at it themselves. They're not studying it. They're not going home and looking at it. And because we have such a bend toward just hearing things incorrectly, then that's already a work biggest.

You know, we think, oh, they said, if you do this, you're going to hell. And maybe that's not what they said at all. You heard that you didn't go home and look it up and so therefore what happened you walked in that direction as though I heard that “church people are bad. They're always judgmental. I guess that means God is, I don't want any part.” Do you see that I just I just traced the truth of our Lord and Salvation from an assumption? This it's a little distortion that Albert Ellis came up with decade It's that big of a deal.

And so going back to your question of how do I know that our thoughts matter to God? Because he keeps putting it in my head, and I'm so grateful. Because I'm the first one he points it out to. Right? It's like Kimberly, you're the one. Here's an example in your life. But now, now that you've got that plank out of your eye, go tell other people that. Because they're doing it too.

Lauren

Oh, yeah. I think especially today's culture, we're in this cancel culture and offense culture. Everybody's offended by everything. Everybody wants to cancel everyone without knowing the full context or without knowing exactly what was said. As you said, sometimes they don't know the scripture behind it.

Or you might just assume that when your friend doesn't text you back, or when you got left out of an invitation for something, you assume the worst, and it causes that rift in a relationship when it could be completely innocent and you have no idea what was going on in that person's life or their thoughts at the time.

Kimberly

Right. Because you're not asking what other alternatives that there be. Those examples are mainly some of the ones that will come in discussion, but they come in and they're, they're just, you know, they check in with a really low check in number. We start kind of diving into what's going on. And before I know it, they've got this full idea wrapped around exactly what you said. “Well, I texted my friend and they haven't gotten back to me in four days and as a result all this stuff you know,” kind of starts unfolding and I'm like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa. So wait a minute, you checked in at a four out of ten and I just want to make sure it's because of this situation, right? Okay, okay. I'm with you. So now where's the evidence of that? Could there be another alternative if this person would not have done that to you?” And this is why I hear people, no, thought about that. Oh my gosh. I'm like, what if there's, what if they have a child that's there? What if they had to leave town? What if they took a new job? What if they just wanted to take some time off? There's so many things, but yet you're right. It's a default, a worst case scenario, and it has to be something I've done. I've messed this up, that maybe, maybe, heaven forbid, maybe, they have something else going on.

Lauren

Yeah, I used to be as, I'm very non confrontational.

And so I used to be the type that would just accept the scenario that, “They, they don't like me. They don't want to have a relationship with me.” And I would just kind of let it slide and let it end, instead of following up and asking. And I actually made a change to this recently. There's a childhood friend of mine that I've been friends with for years, and there was something that happened years and years ago, like probably 10 years ago, that has a little bit bothered me ever since.

And finally, I was like, “You know what, I have to get this off my chest and get clarity on what her intentions were at that time.” And so I invited her over this week and said, “Hey, I just have this really random question that I just have to clear my conscious on and get to the root of. And so that I could move forward.” And it's so silly that I, after all these years, wasn't able to let that go until I finally decided to face it.

Kimberly

And that probably brought some peace.

Lauren

Yeah, it did. And clarity. And I realized I had nothing to be upset about all this time.

Kimberly

So, being a critical thinker is so important. I, we, I think we support that nearly enough, but I know that I was born naturally with that sort of that trait and I wasn't using it the way that I really wanted to now that I look back because of how the world is, create this culture of just make assumptions about things.

And now I realize I lean into that a whole lot more. So ask questions and really get the true answer from the source. Realizing by gladly realizing I'm, I'm wrong most of the time.

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Lauren

 So now I'd love to end by asking you to hear some stories about the times that you've said, “I will never,” and how God has used those profoundly.

Kimberly

Uh, there's a few, I will say there's a few and it's, he's been faithful every single time. But when I've said that these, he's brought it for, one of those being a therapist in private practice, I always said that I would not do that for reasons that now I look back, it is so silly, you know, like thinking that I would not be good at that or thinking that I would be really bored at hearing people talk about the very similar things for more than a week at a time. Now I find so much beauty in it and I can't imagine doing anything else with my life. I can't, like, I was born to do this and yet I had told so many of my friends, "You won't be catching me sitting in a chair doing that. No way."

I also said that I would never marry someone who had been married before. As a very young 20ish person, I said, "Oh no, no way. Like I, I know the decisions that I have made and how important these things are to me, like I want to find someone who has had those same convictions." And God had a very different idea, a very different idea, bringing this man into my life and his precious daughter, who is such a jewel in my life right now. I cannot imagine not having her. She's a daughter and she's a friend. God just knows, right?

He takes it as a challenge whenever we have stuff to say. I have also repeatedly said that I was never homeschooling.. Now I say it because I don't see myself as a teacher. I think I'm beginning to a little bit more now because I'm constantly educating people. But I would say, “Oh, no, I'm, I'm, I'm a great mom to them, but don't put me in that role. Oh, I don't think that any of us would survive.” And again, now I cannot imagine doing it any other, even though we have, because of what it's done for our family. How it's brought us closer. I get so much time with, I'm such a part of life, being able to fold in the things that I'm really wanting them to get about our faith and not just math and science and language art and all of those basic big things.

One of the other really, really big ones, and this would always make me laugh, is my very first job as a social worker, I worked at an inpatient hospital for behavioral health. And I told every person on my team, “I would absolutely never lead group. Never.” I was terrified. I mean terrified. And it was part of the job.

And so I would tell some of my other teammates, “Look, if you will please lead that group, I will do any of your assessments. I will even stay late. Just please don't put me in front of the group. I don't know how to do that.” And it got forced on me, of course, you know, because that's how jobs are. They're like, “You gotta do this.” And probably two or three times into it, I realized it was as natural for me as breathing. Whether it was a group of five or, you know, 50, I just felt like I get to emerge people and get paid. Is this for real? And people were responding to me and to my style.

Then I just, I look back and I'm like, ”Lord, how in the world can you work like this?” Where I keep saying, “I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do that.” And you keep showing up like, “Yes, you will. And it's exactly what I have to do. You just have to trust me and submit to me.” And so lesson learned. I'm not going to say that again.

Lauren

Yeah, well that goes back to those, take that thought captive too of the things that you were telling yourself that "I can't do this. I'm not good enough. I'm not cut out for that. I would never do that." And first of all, yes, God has way bigger plans for us and can empower us if we just let go and surrender. But then also sometimes you're just believing a lie about yourself.

Kimberly

That's absolutely what it was.

Lauren

So, all right. This was so, so great. Tell our audience where they can find you and a little bit more about how to connect with you.

Kimberly

Oh, yes. So my website right now is being worked on. I know that's usually a super easy way, but in the meantime, what I would ask people to do is to follow me on social media, and that is at Kimberly Christian LCSW, and it's the same handle for my YouTube channel. And so you could message me on any of those platforms. I also have a Facebook group, which is Belief Based Healing Hub. And any of those ways you can message me directly, let me know what your interest in my program, I would love to talk to you about how to get connected and doing that.

But I promise you, you will get daily encouragement from any of those things that will equally pair mental health and faith together.

Lauren

That is so important this day and age, especially. So I hope people do get in touch with Kimberly. She also has a free guide for you called “Discover how to reduce feelings of depression and anxiety for people of faith without joining a 12 step program or reorganizing the entire house.”

So you can gain access to that at the link in the show notes, and I will also have links to all of Kimberly's social media and everything that was mentioned here in the show notes at anchoreddecisions.com/19 or the show notes of the podcast player that you're listening on.

So, and then Kimberly, I always end with a little rapid fire decision making on your part. So, I want you to answer:

  • Apple or Android? Apple

  • Alright. Guitar or piano? Piano.

  • Camping or glamping? Glamping.

  • E-book or paperback? Paperback.

  • Ocean or lake? Lake.

  • And road trip or flight? Road trip, baby. All the way.

Nice.

Kimberly

Those are so fun. Thank you.

Lauren

A lot of those ended up being kind of travel related, which might show I have the need to travel right now. We haven't been in a while. So that's on the mind.

Well, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. This was so great. And I know I need to put this into practice.

Kimberly

Thank you so much for having me. This is a true joy.

Lauren

Yes. Thank you. Bye.

Outro: Thanks for listening all the way through. For more content on decision making and discovering God's will, hit subscribe so you don't miss an episode, or head over to anchoreddecisions.com for show notes and more content related to this episode. See you soon for another episode of the Anchored Decision Show.

Decision Making, Living with Purpose, Christian LifestyleLauren BlackGuest Interview, Life Coach, Intentional Living, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Kimberly Christian, Christian Therapist, Thoughts vs feelings, Take captive every thought, Romans 12:2, 2 Corinthians 10:5, Overcome anxiety and depressionComment